tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18550138.post113105653047654920..comments2023-08-12T03:31:30.619-05:00Comments on The New Testament Round Table: "Jesus' Cleansing of the Temple" vs. "Jesus' ______ of the Temple"Mark Owenshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07145877997591508836noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18550138.post-1131154305332055592005-11-04T20:31:00.000-05:002005-11-04T20:31:00.000-05:00By the way, possibly the underlying problem with S...By the way, possibly the underlying problem with Sanders' approach to this issue is his assumption that the temple is primarily a place of sacrifice (Jesus and Judaism, 63). Yet does this really appreciate the emphasis on the divine presence in such OT texts as 2 Samuel 7. As much as Sanders chides protestants for reading the NT through "protestant lenses", one wonders if he here has not misread the OT through "second temple Judaism lenses."Mark Owenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07145877997591508836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18550138.post-1131139757761596082005-11-04T16:29:00.000-05:002005-11-04T16:29:00.000-05:00Gentlemen,I love the lively discussion and greatly...Gentlemen,<BR/>I love the lively discussion and greatly appreciate the comments. In light of John's "replacement theme," I tend to think that John is emphasizing Jesus' fulfillment of the Law. Even if there was only one cleansing, I would suggest that we should "let John be John," which probably means that Jewish exclusivism should play a lesser role when it comes to determining how Jesus' action in John 2:13ff should be understood. <BR/><BR/>Michael, I appreciate you pointing me to Bryan's book. I have found Keener's discussion helpful. Since Evans does seem to lump John's account in with the Synoptics, I wonder if he might not be quite as helpful (see above comments). [Keener in fact suggests that Gentile exclusion was not the primary motive behind Jesus' actions in John.]<BR/><BR/>Alan, your connection with Hebrews is certainly very appropriate. I often wonder how similar the historical situations addressed by John and Hebrews are. I think I may have found an idea for a new post, by the way:-)Mark Owenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07145877997591508836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18550138.post-1131113014466862952005-11-04T09:03:00.000-05:002005-11-04T09:03:00.000-05:00Very well said Michael. I would add that the denun...Very well said Michael. I would add that the denunciation was also part and parcel of Jesus' fulfillment of the Law. Similar to the argument in Hebrews, that now that the real thing has come the shadow ceases to serve its former role. In other words, the denunciation was a symbolic act with the theological connotations to the effect of "I am the new temple."Alan Bandyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09631479580408195078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18550138.post-1131084116350913492005-11-04T01:01:00.000-05:002005-11-04T01:01:00.000-05:00Mark,1. I think denunciation is perhaps better, al...Mark,<BR/>1. I think denunciation is perhaps better, although you risk being too broad in that denunciation can have a wide range of meaning.<BR/>2. Everyone agrees that Jesus' action in the temple was symbolic, but the question is, "of what?"<BR/>3. A bigger issue you can loose sleep over is why Jesus denounced the temple. The weakness of Sanders' position is that he does not think that Jesus found anything particularly wrong with the temple, but simply believed that a new temple was coming and this one would have to go.<BR/>4. Craig Keener (John comm.) and Craig Evans (Mark comm.) give the best overviews of reasons why Jesus criticized the temple.<BR/>5. Steven Bryan (Jesus and Israel's Traditions of Restoration and Judgment) is perhaps correct that Jesus attacked "the entire operation of the temple" but I would argue, to be specific, that the temple's role as a talisman for nationalistic theology, its exclusion of Gentiles, and economic exploitation were the main reasons that make sense of the Gospel materials.Michael F. Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09713482855679578651noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18550138.post-1131075540144087232005-11-03T22:39:00.000-05:002005-11-03T22:39:00.000-05:00Hey Matt,It depends on the day in question and the...Hey Matt,<BR/>It depends on the day in question and the child I'm able to spend time with:-) God bless.<BR/><BR/>MOMark Owenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07145877997591508836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18550138.post-1131074490316593262005-11-03T22:21:00.000-05:002005-11-03T22:21:00.000-05:00Hey Mark, glad to see you make an appearance on th...Hey Mark, glad to see you make an appearance on the cyberscene. I was wondering what your capitalized ZERO signifies on your 'about me.'Are you rejoicing in or lamenting your lack thereof?Matthew McDillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03380318273597510252noreply@blogger.com